March
2007
Kitchen Remodel – Rough Electrical and Plumbing Done
I’m glad I opted to skip the general contractor. I’m more than talented enough to organize the various people I need to put together my new kitchen but I have had some headaches — specifically, Lowe’s did a poor job and they have been frustrating to work with.
Lowe’s designed my kitchen in exchange for me buying the cabinets there. I don’t know that I would have been happier at any of the other big box home improvement stores, but now I wish I would have gone to a full blown kitchen designer.
Now let me premise this by saying that this is not the house we intended to retire in but in the last year we’ve pretty much decided that we’re not going anywhere so we may as well make this home as nice as it can possibly be since we will likely spend the rest of our lives here.
So here’s why I’m upset with Lowe’s:
My cabinet specialist forgot a few key features that I’m pretty upset about.
1) The Oven: It turns out that they don’t make gas convection ovens that are just 30 inches wide. You would think my cabinet specialist would have known that and told me that I would be limited to an electric oven if I didn’t go with a wider cabinet for the oven. I wanted a gas oven. Gas ovens are better for people who like to broil meat. Electric ovens are better for people who bake. I don’t bake. I eat meat.
2) The Range Hood: Then there’s the hood issue. We decided to spend a little money to make this look like no other home you would find in our little working class suburb. We’re going with the stainless steel hood that makes it look like a top of the line kitchen. The one we wanted is 36 inches. Our Lowe’s cabinet person knew this. Guess what — yep, I have a max clearance of 30 inches so I’m limited to a 30 inch range hood.
3) The Dishwasher: Here’s a prime example of bad design. Now that everything is ordered, we figured out, and this is something I would think a person who gets paid to design kitchens would have been able to offer a little insight on, that if we have our dishwasher open we must load it and unload it from the side. Why? Because when it is open, the bottom nearly touches the cabinets across from it.
4) The Oven Part II: Today I figured out that with my new kitchen design I can have the oven open, but I will only have about 6 inches to stand between the door when it’s open and our island. That means my back side will be bumping up against the sink cabinet unless I load it and unload it from the side. UPDATE: We’re going to relocate the island so this isn’t a problem.
5) Cabinet Install pricing fiasco: I got a call from Lowe’s telling me I need to pay an extra $200 for install because they missed something in the order. I told them it was a no-go. They would have to eat it. Then I spoke with my carpenter who can do the job for $800 less. From what I’ve heard, that would be about what Lowe’s marked up the labor so they could get a cut of the action. I am canceling the labor part of the contract with Lowe’s.
UPDATE: When you cancel the labor, the rest of the deal is taxable since it is not an installed home improvement. My tax is about $750 and I would lose my warranty. I’ve decided not to outsource this.
But on the plus side, I did order most of the things I needed. I chose to go top-of-the-line with my cooktop and chose the Kenmore Pro at Sears. It looks and functions like a professional cooktop should. For the oven we went with Bosch. They have an impressive quality and we’ve been thrilled with the dishwasher. I had a decent price from a vendor but Sears price matched it plus gave me 5%. For the range hood I chose the Broan 30 inch stainless steel which I picked up on ebay as well as an 18 gauge two sided sink I picked up on ebay also.
We’re migrating to stainless as things break down. Yes, this means we might have our white refrigerator for another ten years. As for the dishwasher, we will probably get a stainless cover to attach to the front. The oven and cooktop are stainless steel.
If you do a remodel, here’s the steps you need to take:
Permits – Get these at your local city hall. This process will give you a good sense for what you’re in for.
Cabinets — get a good designer and order them. Pay attention to appliance door clearances and width of oven cabinets. Delivery time may affect when you want to actually order them. Keep in mind that home improvement stores sub out everything and will mark up labor significantly if you want them to install your cabinets.
Demo – demolish the old kitchen, removing soffit materials unless you’re really attached to that 1950′s look.
Rough Carpentry – Build and frame any walls you need to.
Electric and Plumbing — Have your plumber and electrician work their magic. Remember, you can’t put up drywall again until you have your inspector look at the rough job first. This is a good opportunity to ad some nice lighting. Can lights are always a good choice. Get the IC rated cans and only get the ones without slots in the sides since insulation can get inside of there and catch fire. If you really want to get fancy, you can have your plumber put a swinging wall-mounted faucet above the cooktop so you can fill pots with water right on the stove. (We didn’t.)
Our carpenter did a lot of the demo, headered out the support walls so we could eliminate them and overall did a nice job. He was a little pricey but he was worth it.
Our electrician and our plumber work by the hour and I reimburse them for their receipts for supplies they buy at the home improvement stores.
Here’s a little tip: Treat your help well and they will work harder for you and you’ll have a good relationship with them. A pot of coffee and a cooler full of soda while their working are nice ways of thanking them in advance for a job well done without a lot of wasted time. It’s the same thing for lunch — provide them. Treat them with respect but don’t ask them to do things other than what you already agreed upon unless you make arrangements with them to do these things. Of course there is a cost to extras but if you are lucky enough to hire them by the hour it’s time rather than obscene build ons that you’ll pay.
I’ve hired a drywaller and an insulator. The insulator will be using a blown in cellulose unless I totally switch gears and score an inexpensive vendor willing to blow in foam which has higher R values. I’ll know more about that one tomorrow. As for the drywaller, he understand that I have to have rough electric and plumbing inspections plus insulation before I have him go to town on the walls.
I’m headed down to Village Hall tomorrow to see if I can arrange for a quick rough electric and rough plumbing inspection.
After the drywall is done, It’s time to paint the walls and rip up the old floor so I can start laying down the bamboo. I’ve found out that I should take the floor down to the subfloor, lay a thin layer of luann plywood then a pad and then the hardwood. That’ll be a job.
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Jim McGuigan
Jim McGuigan
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we is company manufacturer from indonesia we have oven gas low price great quality if you want you can sent your email we will give you picture and price list
The cabinets opposite the dishwasher should be a minimum of 1200mm apart. You can get some kitchen design tips on my site.
This is what happens when you get the “McDonalds” of kitchen designers doing the design. They normally don’t have the expertise to think about things like clearances, about gas oven sizes and such.
Sometimes it ends up being cheaper to just get the one company to do the whole installation unless you are in the building industry and know all this stuff in advance.
Bamboo is beautiful, and from reading about what you are planning with the electrical, can lights, and plumbing I think your project is going to look great when finish. Will you be adding pictures to see the final product?